Podcast "We are TUM" – Transcript, third episode

"This is why the best research is only worth something when it also results in interesting solutions in real life. To me that's a great example of how the partnership between industry and the university can work."

[Matthias Kirsch:] Frank Weber, whom we just heard, is very interested in seeing the industry and university sectors work well together. He's a member of the Board of Management at Munich-based automobile manufacturer BMW. And to him more innovation means better vehicles in the future. The collaboration between BMW and TU Munich will soon be intensified when BMW sponsors a professorship at the university. This episode's Cutting-Edge Research  section focuses on the benefits to both sides. Welcome to "We are TUM", the podcast by and for the Technical University of Munich. My name is Matthias Kirsch and I'll be guiding you through this podcast. As always, we'll start off with the president of the University, Thomas Hofmann, who will introduce you to the topics of today's episode.

[Thomas Hofmann:] Welcome, dear listener: TU Munich is an inspiring location where a community of students, employees, alumni, partners and guests all come together. The diversity of these people is the source of our strength in research, teaching and innovation, as this episode of "We are TUM" will very clearly show.
As usual we'll begin with our section on Research and Technology. This time we won't be speaking with a researcher, but rather with a man who makes leading-edge technology possible: the BMW Board of Management member Frank Weber. The automotive group is sponsoring a future-oriented chair at TU Munich in the field of quantum computing.

This episode's 'Hidden Champion' is Gerhard Lehrberger. The self-described "Geologist with Culture" takes care of the various hidden treasures to be found at our university – he presents the artwork, restores it and sometimes even has to save it. Then we'll move from the world of art to the world of the start-up. A constantly growing number of successful young German enterprises find their beginnings here at TU Munich. One of them is air up, founded by Fabian Schlang; you'll find out exactly what he does later in this episode. A small tip in advance: It has to do with a revolutionary new way to drink.

We'll conclude with our section 'Outside Perspectives'. Today's topic: networking. The Munich Security Conference means we have first-rate experts in this field practically right next door. Lisa Marie Ullrich is the Security Conference's program director. She'll tell us why quality is more important than quantity when networking and why we should feel free to ask our role models for a couple of tips now and again. I hope you enjoy listening to this episode of "We are TUM" and wish you all the best until next time!

Cutting-edge research

[Kirsch:] A positive partnership has already existed for several years between TUM and the Munich automobile manufacturer BMW. This will now intensify, since BMW has agreed to sponsor a professorship at the university in the future-oriented field of quantum computing. My colleague Marcel Laskus speaks with Frank Weber about why that's necessary and how the car of the future will look. As a member of the BMW Board of Management, Weber is responsible for development of the automotive group's vehicles.

[Marcel Laskus:] Welcome, Mr. Weber.

[Frank Weber:] Hello Mr. Laskus.

[Laskus:] As I read in your resumé, you studied mechanical engineering in the 1980s. Back then we were still talking about combustion engines. Today developments are occurring at an amazing pace: quantum technology, e-cars, autonomous driving. Would you like to be a student again today?

[Weber:] Sure, I always loved the work… at the university, that is. But the interesting thing is: I never stopped learning. And I think that's characteristic of our entire industry. If you take a look at what you just mentioned, that today we're working with battery cells, sensor technologies, driver assistance algorithms, digitalization and all of that, you'll notice that that's very far away from what set the tone in my mechanical engineering studies over 30 years ago. And you'll also see that for those who are learning in the industry and those who are beginning to learn at the universities, interdisciplinary thoughts take on completely different meanings. So sometimes I'm miss those days a bit, but somehow I'm still right in the middle of things.

[Laskus:] In what areas do you think quantum algorithms, quantum computers or quantum applications will play a future role at the BMW Group?

[Weber:] Of course today the automotive industry is performing huge amounts of simulations which use tremendous amounts of computing power, things like aerodynamics or acoustics. In the future that will be focused on the performance of the cell, the battery cell in the e-car. That involves a chemical process which is very hard to capture. This means, the more computing power we have, the better our simulations get. And we depend on these simulations. Sometimes this also means the more computing power I have and as a result the more simulation power I have, the more application fields that will emerge for us. This is why we already gained an interest in quantum computing years ago and we said: It's very important that we promote a user-oriented approach so that we'll be able to apply it for ourselves when the time comes. That will help us make much better statements in terms of simulation.

[Laskus:] If I can speak from my own personal point of view: I find the entire field to be a little abstract. Can you cite a very concrete example of where the field of quantum computing will play a role in a car from BMW?

[Weber:] As I just mentioned: Everything which requires major computing power is a point where the use of quantum computing is highly promising to us. Materials research, the behavior of material pairings, behavior over the entire lifecycle down to the molecular level. As you can imagine, capturing all these situations in simulations requires a tremendous amount of computing power. And if you take a look at how things were in the past: We started many years ago for example with the crash test, a car drives into a wall and the structure is deformed. It used to be the case that you started off the computer on Friday night, went home for the weekend and on Monday the results were ready. In this world you'd get the results at the push of a button, in real time. And this will apply to very many, very complex tasks. Or take materials research, I already mentioned the battery cell. How do molecules in the cell behave over time? How do these things change? This also applies to Machine Learning in a certain way. The way we do it today, driver assistance requires the processing of enormous amounts of data. So you can see, in a great number of various fields – cell materials, driver assistance, algorithms – there are very specific applications for this rapid computing power and also very specific uses.

[Laskus:] Today of course, as they say, that's all somewhere in the future. And the BMW Group is supporting TUM to help make sure that future will become the present at some point. Just recently the contract for the founding of an Endowed Chair for quantum algorithms and quantum applications was signed, providing for 5.1 million euros over the course of six years. But as a corporate entity, the BMW Group has tens of thousands of experts at its fingertips. Why is external support from a university necessary?

[Weber:] Of course we have plenty of experts, but there's a clear distinction. These specialists focus on making the best possible cars, the best possible motorcycles and all that goes with it. We are supporting cutting-edge research here in the hope that we will someday benefit from the fact that this technology is available to us in application-related terms. And this is also a clear sign of something we said almost five years ago, that quantum computing is very relevant for us. We formed a project team, etc., but we noticed that if we really want to be able to practically apply this technology within, say, ten years, it will require a different kind of collaboration between us and the university.

[Laskus:] What is your idea of the perfect symbiosis between a privately operated corporation like the BMW Group and a university like TUM?

[Weber:] The independence of the university is very, very important. The research always has to be ahead of us in a certain sense. But, just as important to us, and this endowed chair is a wonderful example, in the end we ultimately want to have both cutting-edge research and cutting-edge industrial solutions. And we want to see that these sectors quickly come together wherever new solutions emerge. This is what we call innovation, this is why the best research is only worth something when it also results in interesting solutions in real life. And that's precisely the formulated objective of the chair. We said, there's more than enough fundamental research in the area of quantum computing. But really adopting the objective of working towards applying this research in concrete cases – To me that's a great example of how the partnership between industry and the university can work.

[Laskus:] Thank you, Mr. Weber.

[Weber:] Thank you for the conversation.

Hidden Champion

[Kirsch:] At first glance talking about art at a place as dedicated to technology as TU Munich may seem out of place. But we're right on target: The university is also home to many hidden art treasures. And luckily there's also someone dedicated to exposing the art at TUM, to restoring it and sometimes, sadly, also to saving it. He refers to himself as a "Geologist with culture". Clarissa Ruge speaks with this episode's 'Hidden Champion', Gerhard Lehrberger, about art at TU Munich.

[Clarissa Ruge:] Mr. Lehrberger, you're a geologist. Why are we now talking about art at TUM?

[Gerhard Lehrberger:] Today we're talking about art at TUM, specifically art in stone. That's my specialty area, that's Culture Geology, the area which connects humans with stone, so to speak.

[Ruge:] That sounds interesting. Where do we find the great cultural treasures at TUM? And what are their stories?

[Lehrberger:] Well, we actually have quite a few treasures. Of course our first great treasure is our students. But in terms of stone culture, we also have highlights at every site. On the main campus for example we have the wonderful TUM tower, whose staircase alone is a work of art in stone.

[Ruge:] And where exactly can we see this stone?

[Lehrberger:] On our tours through TUM campus you can actually trace the structural history of TUM based on the stonework. And the most beautiful site is the tower's staircase, where the complete staircase is made of a wonderful variety of different kinds of stone with outstanding high-quality workmanship.

[Ruge:] What do you personally find so fascinating about stone?

[Lehrberger:] I'm personally most fascinated by polishable stones, stones which frequently show up on the surface in architecture, the aspect of color and structure. Stones from which I can read something, for example about the story of their creation and lifecycle.

[Ruge:] And how long have you been fascinated with stones? Did it begin for you as a child or emerge later in life?

[Lehrberger:] I transferred to TUM and started studying geology here over 40 years ago. And that curriculum was already a thrill for me. The fascination kept on growing; I've been involved with the stonework at TUM for about 15 years now.

[Ruge:] Let's get back to the art at TUM. What's your favorite historically significant spot here?

[Lehrberger:] The art at TUM is highly diverse. If I had to pick a single spot in Munich as the one I like best, then it would really be the TUM tower. Just the exhilarating feeling of climbing up through this world of stone and then to be surrounded by the design at the top with the masonry and the metals. And then of course there's the view. It's no coincidence that the TUM Tower has been chosen as the university's new symbol.

[Ruge:] And what else? Are there other beautiful places to discover?

[Lehrberger:] Then on the main campus there are also plenty of artworks, some of which are considered art in construction, some of which are actually architectural landmarks. I like to remind people of the Ohm monument on Theresienstraße. Then there's the wonderful metal sculpture by Fritz Koenig in the interior courtyard. This goes all the way down to small hidden works of art in stairways and on walls, where they can sometimes go unnoticed for many decades. So TUM is also in a sense an art museum.

[Ruge:] And who takes care of all these treasures?

[Lehrberger:] Right now we don't have a separate position dedicated to artwork at TUM. The compilation in the anniversary album for the 150-year anniversary celebration showed that we're really a giant museum, but unfortunately we still don't have a curator to look after all the artworks.

[Ruge:] Is there a particular event where you would say, that was really a hair-raising experience when I found out about that?

[Lehrberger:] There are indeed a couple of events relating to handling artwork at TUM, in particular involving stone objects, that I found truly shocking. At the top of the list is probably a stone mosaic form the famous artist Karl Knappe, who designed a mosaic for the material testing office building which almost ended up as demolition debris. And if the construction workers hadn't decided to temporarily store it right next to the entrance to our department, it most likely would have been lost forever.

[Ruge:] And nobody noticed? Was it a complete coincidence that you just happened to walk by and notice it?

[Lehrberger:] It was a complete coincidence. A colleague who was participating in a project and who is also a restorer came up to me and said, look, there's a mosaic in the debris. And then I went downstairs and of course I saw right away what was there, as if it had to make room for a video screen, and, finally we succeeded in saving it. Now it's going to be reintegrated in the original ensemble once again. We happen to have a staircase which is one of the most beautiful staircases of the entire 1950s, and that's really where the mosaic belongs.

[Ruge:] So many fascinating tours will once again be possible, with the pandemic dying down. Where can people find information about how to enjoy one of your tours?

[Lehrberger:] Well, primarily we offer our tours through the Alumni Service. Alumni tours are very popular, they always attract people who have already been to TUM. And Dr. Meißner does exactly the same thing. So it would be me and Dr. Meißner who give the tours of the TUM campus…

[Ruge:] Then maybe we'll see each other again for a campus tour…

[Lehrberger:] Either at the TUM main campus or in Straubing, where we also offer tours.

[Ruge:] That sounds great! Thank you for speaking with us, Mr. Lehrberger.

[Lehrberger:] My pleasure.

The Young Perspective

[Kirsch:] Fabian Schlang is a trained cook and studied Nutrition Science as well as Food Science and Technology at TU Munich. So it's no surprise that his start-up also has to do with nutrition. He got together with other students from his days at TUM to found air up. The objective of the company: To use a clever trick to make pure water taste as if it were flavored. Marcel Laskus meets with Fabian Schlang.

[Laskus:] Hi, Fabian.

[Fabian Schlang:] Hello.

[Laskus:] For our listeners who may not be familiar with you yet: What exactly is air up?

[Schlang:] Air up is a revolutionary new drinking system. Basically, it is a drinking water bottle equipped with aroma pods. These aroma pods are applied to the top of the bottle: When you drink, both the water and the aroma enter the mouth. Then the aroma moves up through the naso-pharyngeal zone retronasally, as we nutrition scientists would say, to the olfactory center. The brain interprets the information as taste, even though you're actually only drinking pure water. So it's a retronasal, aroma-based drinking system.

[Laskus:] And when I take a look at one of the bottles you brought with you, I have to say it looks pretty stylish. In an interview with the daily Süddeutsche Zeitung newspaper you said this basically solves a typical First-World problem. Why should people want something like this?

[Schlang:] I think it's almost in people's DNA, maybe even historically or interms of evolution, that we want to have things with flavor. In the past this was also a good thing. I mean, in the past you survived when you found enough berries and mushrooms which tasted edible . Of course these days things are a lot different. Over 50 percent of the population in what we used to refer to as the First World is overweight. There are very, very high rates of obesity in the EU and in the USA. We're solving this fundamental problem of looking for a certain flavor, but in modern times we no longer need this surplus supply of high-energy nutrients. Let’s face it, we really don't need cola to be part of our diets. And we eat too much as it is, and we get many of these unneeded surplus calories through our beverages. That's exactly the issue we resolve.

[Laskus:] You studied Food Science and Technology as well as Nutrition Science at TUM. After graduating, why didn't you just look for a high-paying job at a company instead of deciding to found your own company?

[Schlang:] Well, I sometimes ask myself the same question. But seriously, it was never my plan to found a company, not at all. Honestly, I have to say this product found me instead: I was so mentally overwhelmed by the fact that this retronasal sense of smell, an application I knew from my studies, that made so much sense to me in a product in so many ways. It's sustainable, it's healthier, it tastes great. Yeah, so it really found me, not the other way around. And then it quickly become clear that we have to do something with this idea, it's just too good to leave in the desk drawer.

[Laskus:] And to what extent did the time you spent at TUM determine your path or help you along the way?

[Schlang:] I'd say to a great extent. At least when I was still studying we weren't exactly predestined to found companies as Food Science and Technology specialists or as Nutrition Scientists the way, for example, TUM Management and Technology students in Garching are. This entrepreneurial university – that's not just a claim, that's the reality at TUM – impacted me deeply and showed me what we can achieve if we set our minds to it.

[Laskus:] In your opinoin, what is at the core of a good start-up? Is it maybe a matter of being able to raise a lot of money? Or hiring a really large number of employees? What are some of the hallmarks of a good start-up?

[Schlang:] Without wanting to sound too esoteric about it, I believe it's important that the mission and the values that drive you can also be realized. Of course revenues, headcount, number of product units sold, in our case also the number of disposable PET bottles saved, this is all amazingly motivating. But at the end of the day I'm personally very motivated by the fact that I can see we're doing something that makes sense.

[Laskus:] There are plenty of students in our audience; what advice would you give to those who are currently at TUM and who are maybe playing with the idea of going into business for themselves or founding a start-up?

[Schlang:] My advice to students is: Take advantage of everything that's being made available to you. Founding a company may not be the easiest way. But it's extremely rewarding, because it gives so much back to you. And TU Munich offers an incredibly wide spectrum of possibilities: the MakerSpace in Garching, a start-up center. The same idea has now been copied in the Venture Labs in Freising and Weihenstephan. The spectrum of things offered is crazy, nobody could take advantage of it all. But the ones we do take advantage of are very, very practical. My advice: Use them, try them out and have fun in the process!

[Laskus:] Thanks so much for sharing with us, Fabian.

[Schlang:] Thank you.

Five Tips

[Kirsch:] In concluding today's episode of "We are TUM" we once again leave the TUM cosmos and return to our section 'Five Tips'. Our guest today is Lisa Marie Ullrich. Lisa is the program director of the Munich Security Conference and her area of specialization is networking. And that's our topic today. Hello, Lisa.

[Lisa Marie Ullrich:] Hello, Matthias.

[Kirsch:] Lisa, you're the program director at the Munich Security Conference. What does your daily work routine look like?

[Ullrich:] Well, you already mentioned it: The Munich Security Conference is probably the most central international platform for debate on foreign policy and security policy. Everyone in Munich will be familiar with the major conference of the same name held in February. Every year in February the central international foreign and security policy decision makers get together to spend a weekend discussing the major crises and challenges faced by international policy. In addition to this conference in February, we also conduct a diverse range of other activities over the course of the year. We also hold events at locations all around the world in smaller formats which bring decision makers together to discuss international challenges. And my job as program director means I have to think about which formats we want to use, whom we want to bring together and which topics are to be discussed. In the connection with the Munich conference in February, which is something like the highlight of each year, I have to work out the program, which topics will be discussed and who will speak on them.

[Kirsch:] I introduced you as an expert in networking. Why is networking so important to you at the Munich Security Conference? And why is networking so important in general?

[Ullrich:] First of all, we of course work closely with a network of decision makers whom we bring together again and again in all our formats. So we work with a network and at the same time we promote networks by constantly bringing together players at our events who then build up their own personal networks. We're also quite consciously interested in making our events be platforms where a government minister may meet for example a scientist who then offers the minister some new input. Or where a renowned journalist meets a CEO who can report on the latest innovation in a security-related field. That's one part of it; and then networking is important to my own personal work activities in that I use my network to reach those decision makers we'd like to bring to Munich. So if we want to bring a government minister from a certain field or a head of state from a certain country to Munich, we of course make strong use of our network in order to convince that person to speak at the conference in Munich. The same applies to the topics we put on the agenda. Here too I exchange with my network and use it generate input on what the topics should be.

[Kirsch:] So those are the reasons why networking is so important to you and your colleagues. And networking is of course also a daily work activity in many other fields. You've been nice enough to bring along five tips on networking for us. Tell us about them.

#1

[Ullrich:] Thanks Matthias, I'd be glad to.
First of all, I think quality is becoming increasingly more important than quantity when it comes to a network. In my opinion, the idea can't just be to send out the thousandth or ten-thousandth contact request on LinkedIn or Xing. It's much more important to build a high-quality and strong network.

#2

This is especially true in light of tip number two. If you want to have a good network which is properly functional and which will work for you, you have to invest in the network. For example, at the Munich Security Conference we do that by regularly keeping our network up to date. We send e-mails, let people know what we're up to, what we're planning. We ask them to let us know what they would find interesting. We invite our network to various formats again and again, bring people together whom we think could be interesting to one another. So we actively invest in our network in order to keep it active and intact.

#3

The third tip: A network has to be able to stay dynamic in some form. We primarily bring political decision makers together at the Munich Security Conference. Many of thes decision makers may be a little bit older, and the group may not always be entirely diverse. This means we take a lot of pains to also integrate younger people in our activities. Here we have a variety of programs for younger talents, which are of course particularly interesting for students who want to expand their own networks.

#4

The fourth tip is to make targeted use of your network in order to take yourself out of your own bubble. We at the Munich Security Conference believe that discussions are especially productive when stakeholders from different fields are brought together, for example the scientist and the minister or the journalist and the CEO I mentioned before. And here I think it will also be very productive for your open network if you take a look around you: What kind of persons and personalities could there be that you would otherwise not come into contact with but who could nevertheless contribute some interesting input?

#5

And the last and probably the most important: Networking is not a one-way street. It's not just about using your network for yourself and taking, it's also about giving. You should keep asking yourself the question: How can I be useful for others, how can I help others? I've benefitted tremendously myself by including people in my world who have opened doors for me and given me advice. So in my present position I try to think of ways to be helpful to others, to provide them with the kind of support I've received.

[Kirsch:] I think this last piece of advice is something we can all take to heart: Helping when we've been helped, giving something back to others, so to speak. One last thing: Maybe you have a secret sixth tip for us, since it's often difficult to take the first step. How did you feel back then when you were first learning how to approach people? How did you learn?

#6

[Ullrich:] More than anything from my point of view today I can say that you'll be amazed by how many people are actually happy when you ask them for advice. Just go ahead and ask. People are much happier about being approached than you'd think, especially when they're asked to share something from their own experience. So just gather up your confidence and go ahead and ask for advice and ask about experiences; you'll receive feedback more often than you think.

[Kirsch:] So today for a change we have six tips on the topic of networking, this time from Lisa Marie Ullrich, program director of the Munich Security Conference. Lisa, thank you very much for your advice.

[Ullrich:] Glad to share, Matthias.

[Kirsch:] And that's it for this episode of "We are TUM". In the next episode we'll once again be showcasing TUM's cutting-edge research, student life and we'll be speaking with all those who make TU Munich the unique place that it is. This has been "We are TUM". This episode was produced by Marcel Laskus, Clarissa Ruge, ProLehre Media Production and me, Matthias Kirsch. Sound design and post-production by Marco Meister of Edition Meister. That's all until the next episode. Make sure to join us and discover the big and little secrets of the Technical University of Munich.

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